Music. Part Three. You heard me.
And everyone’s thinking this will just never stop. Candice wrote what’s in blockquotes.
Dax, I see your point, but I agree with Kevin. You’re right, worship is a reflection of culture. But you have to recognize that as a Reformed churches, we have a culture as well. I find that I don’t appreciate it until I leave. But I’ve been in several different churches in the last few weeks, and it’s made me appreciate the home that I personally have with my church.
You’re quite right: we do have our own Reformed culture. Maybe to you that’s a good thing, but in my mind, that’s a condemnation of us, not an affirmation.
I say this for pragmatic reasons, but also for scriptural ones; first off, the example of other cultures that have done the same thing. Canada is supposedly a mulitcultural society. Frankly, it isn’t. There is a Canadian culture that all other subcultures are a part of, whether they like it or not, and adapt into, whether they like it or not. You see this in young Sihk men not wearing turbans, young Muslim woman not wearing burqas, these sorts of things. We all gravitate toward the central melting pot (a good thing), or the culture we’re a part of will become more and more irrelevant and separate until it ceases to exist at all.
This isn’t to say that elements of Reformed culture can’t stay: you see in a lot of naturalized third- or fourth-generation cultures a lot of attributes and traces of the original. I know Greeks who maintain many things from their parents and grandparents, but don’t speak of a word of Greek, or even care much about Greece. There’s no reason we can’t be like that either. In fact, we already are. Our Dutchness is very much Canadianized (I’m a third generation myself), and we don’t really understand what it’s like to be Dutch, to think and breathe Dutch culture. Why haven’t our church’s stylings gone the same way? I’m saying, don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater, but the bathwater’s starting to get a little lukewarm.
I have to laugh whenever I hear people complainging about the 1952 Psalter Hymnal. I grew up with much, much worse than that. The songs I sang where literally 17th century Genevan songs, meant to be sung accapella, etc. No one who hadn’t grown up in the church could sing them. A lot of my family still belongs to those churches, and now whenever I visit them I have Peter with me, and he just can’t sing along. note that he grew up in a Reformed church.
So when we joined Zion URC I was AMAZED at the beautiful music. Those hymns are POETRY…and 90% of the tunes are beautiful. The sudden ability to harmonize in church! To be convicted as well as ministered to by the words of the hymns almost as much - and sometimes more - than the sermon! That is a true blessing a lot of more “hip to the culture” churches don’t have.
That’s a mischaracterization of my views, and also of modern churches. While some care more for style over substance, there’s quite a few that are still centred on the scriptures and sing songs that revolve around that credo. I’ve found this out because I’ve gone to a lot of different churches. They’re not perfect, of course, but we’re not perfect, either.
Besides, coming from the Genevan Psalter to the Psalter Hymnal is a lot like going from the third degree of hell to Africa. At least Africa has a lot of water. It has a huge desert in it, but there’s water. When I went to your CanRC back in the day, wow, that was a culture shock. I humbly submit that you think of this in reverse: imagine someone coming in, never having heard the Psalter Hymnal, never having been subjected to anything but modern music, and imagine how foreign an experience that might be.
Second, because we’re commanded to be in the world. Not of the world, but in the world. Elsewhere, we’re given a cultural mandate to be light and salt. We’re doing neither. Our churches are in the world, as in on the planet, but not particularly in the world, as in functioning as a redemptive part of the culture. Frankly, you can’t change the culture into the image of Christ from a distance, much like you can’t conceive a child over email. We need — much like Christ — to become like what we want to save. Don’t think the culture’s got it right? Fine; use the culture as a base of operations and move out from there.
I want to make two points here: one, that appreciation for the hymns is a lot easier to attain in a building with decent acoustics and a well-tuned and -played piano or organ. (and the occasional trumpet, violin, or flute, which our church includes frequently)
Two, that there are two extremes and I sincerely believe are both wrong. There are people who want NO change in our music selections. Which I don’t believe is good, because it’s not like music is a closed canon. Good music is still being composed, somewhere. But the other extreme seems to think that good music is still being composed EVERYWHERE…which is simply not true. I love newer worship music, I own several WOW CDs and I listen to them all the time. But you have to admit that there is not a heck of a lot of meaning in most of those songs. Maybe it’s just because of my upbringing, but the songs that bring out the emotion in me are songs like In Christ Alone, or How Deep the Father’s Love for Us…both songs which simply lay out the gospel message, with little or no emphasis on how “I” feel. Incidentally, they are also written by the same guy, so I plan to keep an eye out for other stuff by him.
Agreed, with reservations. There’s a lot of crappy worship music being made. But to paraphrase D.A. Carson, there were a lot of crappy hymns written as well — we just don’t sing them anymore because the church as a whole eventually realized they were crappy. I give you for an example some of the stuff the Gaithers bring up every once in a while, stuff that sounds like a 1950s television commercial soundtrack. I have every confidence that the music of today will bear the same scrutiny and only the best will be brought into history with us.
Also, bear with the worship music. The renewed interest in writing worship songs is a baby phenomenon. We may have to wait twenty or thirty years until some of the worship leaders become truly mature enough to write great, not just good, material.
Incidentally (I like that word), a lot of the Psalms written by David are very much about how he felt. They always eventually focus on God, but not to the exclusion of his humanity. I wonder if we in Reformed circles actually have a good reason for “not singing about me”, other than the fact that open expressions of my love, or my desire to serve, or how God affects me make us nervous.
It’s taken me a long time to get here, but I am completely in love with the sincere, heartfelt, and yet somewhat dignified music of the Reformed churches. It would break my heart to see us go to a powerpoint screen with the latest music up on it. (Not that there’s such a problem with powerpoint…I just like to hold a hymnal and see the music in front of me, instead of just words.)
I am in full agreement with you here. I’m not advocating a revolution. All I think should happen is that Reformed churches should just start moving. I mean, we’re too stationary and inwardly focused as it is. It’s not healthy, and as far as I can tell, not honouring to God, either.
And quite co-incidentally, I like the tactile feel of holding a hymnal too. It aids in singing, and skill in singing brings glory to God (as can be developed from scripture). I would like actual music for all the songs we sing, so that at least we don’t lose that ability to sing in four-part harmony…
This is a bit of a later edition, and not really connected to what’s above in any tangible way. But I have two more issues.
Firstly, we in Reformed Circles aren’t becoming the change we want to see. What I mean by that is we’re all fine and dandy with singing out of the blue Psalter and sitting around pointing out how little clothes the emperor of modern worship is wearing, but which of us is doing something about it? Are any of us writing songs? Well, sure, some people are. Is there any way to get those songs out to the churches? Do we have a mechanism to spread good music? The answer to these questions is maybe, no, and no.
Secondly, slippery slope logic is invalid logic. It’s just plain bad, and anyone who uses it should be slapped with a trout. A lot of people like to say, “Well if we start to sing songs that aren’t in the blue Psalter, who knows what might happen next!” I think that logic is evidence of a lack of faith in God, and a lack of trust in elders of our local churches. After all, God’s given men in the past a great deal of wisdom when dealing with issues such as this; why would he not do the same today? Whis is why God’s given you good minds and the ability to use them. So you can make decisions, move forward, and make progress without abandoning the base of operations. So you can change a little, stylistically, and not become an apostate church.
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i’m back… some comments (once again, bear in mind that this is unpolished reactionary thought) - i rest assured you’ll make this look pretty, Dax:
D: Do we want to reach out to out culture? Yes. Do we want to reach out to our youth? Yes. Then we need to have at least some bases to touch with them, and one of those bases is stylings: that is to say that the music of the 1700s is largely no longer relevant to them.
K: yes we want to reach out to culture. but our primary purpose is to glorify God, not to witness/evangelize. witnessing/evanelizing is a WAY of glorifying God, as is corporate worship. but we should never cramp our ability in glorifying God so that we are better able to witness. what i mean is, FIRST choose music that glorifies God, whether it be from the blue psalter or from some $5.99 worship CD. SECOND, think about how appealing it is to those singing (as Dax showed to be important in his response to my last post. and THEN think about how appealing it is to those we wish to witness to.
D: because I want church to be just as much a vibrant part of my life as anything else, not like stepping into some shift in time.
K: i don’t persay want to jump into the past every time i enter the church’s building, but i DO want church to be different. i don’t want it AS much a vibrant part AS anything else. i want it MORE SO. it should be different. and God set up the Sabbath as a day of rest. that doesn’t mean sleep. that means a spiritual breather from the demanding, tempting, whirlwind existence we live 6 days a week. a chance to be with your own kind and (to a degree, in a way), let your guard down. and it concerns me when people try so hard to make it flow with the rest of our lives. for example, i am all for drums in church. but only every now and then. i don’t want a band up front, whether they sound like metallica or terri clark, britney spears or caedmon’s call. i want something different from my daily life. so that i focus on God like “wow, this is God-time, not ME-time at ALL”. remember when we used to have preteens from the inner city slums come to our church? they reportedly had a “meeting” with council/consistory (i always forget the diff). and they reportedly told the elders that they LIKED coming, and they LIKED the singing. they preferred it being so out-of-date and different from what they’re used to. they could go to a concert any day of the week, and if we had sounded like that, they’d have been turned off. they liked it, solely b/c it was different. now, i’m not trying to say that modern worship music is on the same level as our radio music, but maybe it’s not such a bad thing to have music that is in a completely different DIRECTION than what we’re used to.
D: You see this in young Sihk men not wearing turbans, young Muslim woman not wearing burqas, these sorts of things. We all gravitate toward the central melting pot (a good thing), or the culture we’re a part of will become more and more irrelevant and separate until it ceases to exist at all. This isn’t to say that elements of Reformed culture can’t stay: you see in a lot of naturalized third- or fourth-generation cultures a lot of attributes and traces of the original. I know Greeks who maintain many things from their parents and grandparents, but don’t speak of a word of Greek, or even care much about Greece. There’s no reason we can’t be like that either. In fact, we already are. Our Dutchness is very much Canadianized (I’m a third generation myself), and we don’t really understand what it’s like to be Dutch, to think and breathe Dutch culture. Why haven’t our church’s stylings gone the same way?
K: because it’s the church! thank God we HAVEN’T gone the same way! i think that what you meant to say here and what i understand you to have said are two very different things. i hope so. b/c we definitely should not be joining in as the world conforms to the culture they are in. we are called to be different. there is a big difference between cultures and religions. i have nothing against cultures meshing. i do have a problem with the salt that is called to go out into the earth becoming a part of the mix. i do have a problem with the light that is called to go out into the darkness blending in so we get a sort of homogeneous dim light. candice said the (Reformed) church has its own culture. now i’m not huge on different denominations having their own “cultures” from eachother, but i AM big on the church as a whole having it’s own “culture” from the world. christians should never gravitate to a central melting pot. this is NOT a good thing.
D:Our churches are in the world, as in on the planet, but not particularly in the world, as in functioning as a redemptive part of the culture. Frankly, you can’t change the culture into the image of Christ from a distance, much like you can’t conceive a child over email. We need — much like Christ — to become like what we want to save. Don’t think the culture’s got it right? Fine; use the culture as a base of operations and move out from there.
K: dax, you’re frightening me. i love how you always challenge me to think about the church looking outward more rather than so inward, but i think you go too far. “become like what we want to save”? honestly, dax. i don’t think that’s christian by any denomination’s standards. but as you pointed out, i do know you, so i guess you just didn’t do so hot with the phraseology there. how would i be able to help someone save themself from themself if i was trying to be like them? …and the next bit i take issue with as well… “use the culture as a base of operations and move out from there”? no. christians should use God, christianity, and a unified corporate faith body as a base of operations. your own “analogy” references an army-type “BASE of operations”; an army must have it’s base in it’s own body, not in the foreign land they’re invading among those they’re invading.
D: there were a lot of crappy hymns written as well — we just don’t sing them anymore because the church as a whole eventually realized they were crappy. I give you for an example some of the stuff the Gaithers bring up every once in a while, stuff that sounds like a 1950s television commercial soundtrack. I have every confidence that the music of today will bear the same scrutiny and only the best will be brought into history with us.
K: it’s a really good reminder that we need not get hyped up over having some crappy songs now - you’re right… they probably will die out. but then again, why are they so popular now? USELESS songs that slap GOD in the face like “yeslordyeslordyesyeslordyeslordyeslordyesyeslordyeslordyeslordyesyeslord”. not to say that song has no place; but while it may be okay for a man and his guitar basically wordlessly praising his Lord in emotion, that is NOT a chorus to be sung in a youth group. but — as dax would say — i digress. …we must keep in mind, dax, that the shoddy songs of the hymnal (even by your own explanation here) were lousy musically. but what we take issue with is songs that slack off on the MEANING. but yah, moving on.
D: Also, bear with the worship music. The renewed interest in writing worship songs is a baby phenomenon. We may have to wait twenty or thirty years until some of the worship leaders become truly mature enough to write great, not just good, material.
K: good point.
D: Incidentally (I like that word), a lot of the Psalms written by David are very much about how he felt. They always eventually focus on God, but not to the exclusion of his humanity. I wonder if we in Reformed circles actually have a good reason for “not singing about me”, other than the fact that open expressions of my love, or my desire to serve, or how God affects me make us nervous.
K: singing about yourself and singing about how you feel are different. i am totally down with singing about our position with God, etc.etc.etc. …but singing something abour how you FEEL is not something to do CORPORATELY. if you wish to sing to God about your personal relationship and your CURRENT FEELINGS, i greatly encourage it. but for me and my youth group to sing together about how come CCM-worship artist felt 6 months ago is hardly relevant. i was in the prescence of a mainstream radio band as they were polishing up lyrics. when i asked who wrote all the lyrics before polishing, i was told that the singer did. the reason? not b/c he was necessarily better, but b/c (as the lead guitarist told me) it would be weird for him to sing something someone else had wrote. point taken? to consider: did David write his psalms with the purpose of them being corporately sung? or was he an artistic man who was good with both instruments (or at least one) and words?
D: What I mean by that is we’re all fine and dandy with singing out of the blue Psalter and sitting around pointing out how little clothes the emperor of modern worship is wearing, but which of us is doing something about it? Are any of us writing songs? Well, sure, some people are. Is there any way to get those songs out to the churches? Do we have a mechanism to spread good music? The answer to these questions is maybe, no, and no.
K: true, true. while i disagree with some (or much!) of your thoughts, you are always right when you remind us to stop bitching and start fixing.
D: Secondly, slippery slope logic is invalid logic. It’s just plain bad, and anyone who uses it should be slapped with a trout. A lot of people like to say, “Well if we start to sing songs that aren’t in the blue Psalter, who knows what might happen next!”
K: another good reminder.
peace out y’all…
November 25th, 2004 at 3:01 pm::K::